Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney
What was it like being the first woman to represent your district in the New York City Council?
“Throughout my career, I was usually the first woman to hold the job. (the Staff Director for the City’s committee, legislative aid, etc…). I think it was because the country was changing and the doors were opening for women where they had been closed in the past. I was the first woman to represent both my Council and my Congressional Districts. When I went to Congress I chaired the Joint Economic Committee. I was the first woman to chair that. Now I chair the Oversight and Reform Committee. I was also the first woman to give birth while in office, which I am very proud of. A lot of men became fathers, but it was unusual to have a woman on the City Council become a young mother. It was very exciting. When I started out, no one in politics really looked like me. There were very few women, and they didn’t share the experiences of a working mother in which you have to take care of your children, your family, and your job. Most times I was the only woman in the room, and that taught me the power of standing up and speaking out for what I believe in. It also influenced what I worked on. I did a lot of bills on paid family medical leave, childcare affordability, fair treatment of women and taxes that are married…all kinds of things! In fact, one of the first things I did…my daughter is named Virginia. I named a piece of legislation I wrote, The Virginia Act, because The Virginia Act was the formation of our Country led by Virginia and it led to our Country and many other changes moving us towards the democracy that we have now. Unfortunately, the Virginia Act never passed. But, I took those ideas with me to Congress and when I first introduced them they were considered radical. Leadership refused to take them up seriously, and now they’re hallmarks of the Democratic party. When I went to Congress I was on the Government Reform and Oversight Committee, so I authored a bill to profound the medical leave for federal employees (and for the birth of a child). We had a (Build Back Better for everybody, for the private sector) Bill back then, but as you know, that stalled. So, I’ve continued to work on paid family and medical leave my entire career.”
What made you decide to run for Congress?
“I never thought about running for office. I just went to work. I always worked very hard and did a good job at whatever job I had. So, I went to Albany, where I worked first for the Staff of the Chair of Housing. Later, I was hired by the Speaker to be the Staff Director for the City’s Committee. After that, I worked for two Speakers, and I was sort of a special assistant to both of them. Then, the leader of the Senate, Manfred Ohrenstein, hired me. So, I worked for two speakers and the Democratic Leader of the State Senate before I ran for office. And I still think the best way to do any job is to start being an apprentice. I went to work in politics, I worked for elected officials, I worked for an Assemblyman, I worked for two speakers, and the Democratic Leader of the State Senate. And when you work for these people, you start representing them. So people come to you and look to you for leadership. So the communities started coming to me and asking me to run for the City Council, which I did. I was elected to the City Council, and when you’re on the City Council you see how so much of everything you do is dependent on Federal money. It’s hard to have an educational system, a healthcare system, a transit system without Federal support. When I was coming along, my role models were teachers, librarians, and nurses. Not elected officials. You didn’t have women in office back then. So that’s what I did. I became a teacher. Through the job I became involved in politics and could see the power of politics, so I went to work full- time in politics, and ended up running So, in our country you can challenge when you don’t like things. And so they, during those years, Reagan and Bush, cut aid to the city by 75%. We couldn’t do anything. We were cutting back on everything. I was afraid we’d have to close our healthcare system because all we did was cut. So, I ran against the 14-Year Republican Incumbent, Bill Green, who outspent me 4:1. The whole East Side at that point was Republican. I beat him. It is called the biggest upset in the Nation, and I went off the Congress. And the rest is history.”
How has the political landscape changed for women since you were first elected to Congress 30 years ago?
“Well, just look, we have a woman Governor. I am very proud of her. I never thought I would see a woman taken seriously for President. Hillary Clinton, she ran on a major party and broke that glass ceiling for all of us. And now, on the City Council, we have a majority of women. It’s amazing when you think about it.
The new class of council members that are sworn in are majority female. So that has really changed in your lifetime and mine. So I think the future of my city is a very good one because I know firsthand that when women are at the table, we can accomplish great things like finishing the work that I started on the City Council (paid leave for the birth of a child, universal child care). Finally, we just enacted the American Rescue Plan -- Universal Pre-K, so every child in New York at three years old can get an education, which is a proposal I’ve worked on since my time in Congress. I had began my career in East Harlem teaching English as a second language and high school equivalency to adults, including many single parents. When the program ran out of money, my first election as I was elected by the teachers there to represent them in an effort to refund the program, and I was very successful. It was my first election. I remember going down to the Headquarters and going up with all the teachers to lobby the legislature. I was very effective at it, so I ended up being the lobbyist for the educational program to get it defunded, refunded, and I could see the power of Government to influence education. I decided I wanted to go to work!”
So would you say that’s the probably most major change you’ve seen, the amount of representation?
“Oh absolutely. When I was working making 50c to the dollar, there were no protections for harassment. Harassment was just part of the job, and it was rampant. And we didn’t have the great protections that we have now and Title 7, the equality of employment, and Title 9, the equality of being treated in sports. So, a lot of changes have come that are monumental.”
Since 2016, do you think it has become harder to gain bipartisan support with respect to the House Caucus on Women’s Issues due to widespread divisions in our nation? Can you talk more about this with respect to when you drafted a bill to create a women’s museum on the Mall?
“One of my bills is to pass equal rights. So I was walking around the whole Mall, you know, where all those monuments are, for all the Presidents. And I just started thinking, where are the women? There were no women on the Mall. So, I put in a bill to create a women’s museum on the Mall, thinking it would be easy to pass, but it took me about 15 years to pass it. It was a lot of hard work, but I finally got it done. I think it’s always been hard [to gain bipartisan support]. If anything, it’s gotten easier over time.”
Given how the landscape has changed, do you have any predictions or insights as to what the future holds for women in politics and elected office?
“Well I think that our numbers have been climbing. When I came to Congress there were very few women, now we’re over 100. It’s made a difference. We have the votes to stand up for choice, stand up for women’s health, stand up for equality. With numbers come power. So, it’s been a great event for us to be out there and gaining recognition and power. Bright, bright future ahead of us. Very bright.”
“Throughout my career, I was usually the first woman to hold the job. (the Staff Director for the City’s committee, legislative aid, etc…). I think it was because the country was changing and the doors were opening for women where they had been closed in the past. I was the first woman to represent both my Council and my Congressional Districts. When I went to Congress I chaired the Joint Economic Committee. I was the first woman to chair that. Now I chair the Oversight and Reform Committee. I was also the first woman to give birth while in office, which I am very proud of. A lot of men became fathers, but it was unusual to have a woman on the City Council become a young mother. It was very exciting. When I started out, no one in politics really looked like me. There were very few women, and they didn’t share the experiences of a working mother in which you have to take care of your children, your family, and your job. Most times I was the only woman in the room, and that taught me the power of standing up and speaking out for what I believe in. It also influenced what I worked on. I did a lot of bills on paid family medical leave, childcare affordability, fair treatment of women and taxes that are married…all kinds of things! In fact, one of the first things I did…my daughter is named Virginia. I named a piece of legislation I wrote, The Virginia Act, because The Virginia Act was the formation of our Country led by Virginia and it led to our Country and many other changes moving us towards the democracy that we have now. Unfortunately, the Virginia Act never passed. But, I took those ideas with me to Congress and when I first introduced them they were considered radical. Leadership refused to take them up seriously, and now they’re hallmarks of the Democratic party. When I went to Congress I was on the Government Reform and Oversight Committee, so I authored a bill to profound the medical leave for federal employees (and for the birth of a child). We had a (Build Back Better for everybody, for the private sector) Bill back then, but as you know, that stalled. So, I’ve continued to work on paid family and medical leave my entire career.”
What made you decide to run for Congress?
“I never thought about running for office. I just went to work. I always worked very hard and did a good job at whatever job I had. So, I went to Albany, where I worked first for the Staff of the Chair of Housing. Later, I was hired by the Speaker to be the Staff Director for the City’s Committee. After that, I worked for two Speakers, and I was sort of a special assistant to both of them. Then, the leader of the Senate, Manfred Ohrenstein, hired me. So, I worked for two speakers and the Democratic Leader of the State Senate before I ran for office. And I still think the best way to do any job is to start being an apprentice. I went to work in politics, I worked for elected officials, I worked for an Assemblyman, I worked for two speakers, and the Democratic Leader of the State Senate. And when you work for these people, you start representing them. So people come to you and look to you for leadership. So the communities started coming to me and asking me to run for the City Council, which I did. I was elected to the City Council, and when you’re on the City Council you see how so much of everything you do is dependent on Federal money. It’s hard to have an educational system, a healthcare system, a transit system without Federal support. When I was coming along, my role models were teachers, librarians, and nurses. Not elected officials. You didn’t have women in office back then. So that’s what I did. I became a teacher. Through the job I became involved in politics and could see the power of politics, so I went to work full- time in politics, and ended up running So, in our country you can challenge when you don’t like things. And so they, during those years, Reagan and Bush, cut aid to the city by 75%. We couldn’t do anything. We were cutting back on everything. I was afraid we’d have to close our healthcare system because all we did was cut. So, I ran against the 14-Year Republican Incumbent, Bill Green, who outspent me 4:1. The whole East Side at that point was Republican. I beat him. It is called the biggest upset in the Nation, and I went off the Congress. And the rest is history.”
How has the political landscape changed for women since you were first elected to Congress 30 years ago?
“Well, just look, we have a woman Governor. I am very proud of her. I never thought I would see a woman taken seriously for President. Hillary Clinton, she ran on a major party and broke that glass ceiling for all of us. And now, on the City Council, we have a majority of women. It’s amazing when you think about it.
The new class of council members that are sworn in are majority female. So that has really changed in your lifetime and mine. So I think the future of my city is a very good one because I know firsthand that when women are at the table, we can accomplish great things like finishing the work that I started on the City Council (paid leave for the birth of a child, universal child care). Finally, we just enacted the American Rescue Plan -- Universal Pre-K, so every child in New York at three years old can get an education, which is a proposal I’ve worked on since my time in Congress. I had began my career in East Harlem teaching English as a second language and high school equivalency to adults, including many single parents. When the program ran out of money, my first election as I was elected by the teachers there to represent them in an effort to refund the program, and I was very successful. It was my first election. I remember going down to the Headquarters and going up with all the teachers to lobby the legislature. I was very effective at it, so I ended up being the lobbyist for the educational program to get it defunded, refunded, and I could see the power of Government to influence education. I decided I wanted to go to work!”
So would you say that’s the probably most major change you’ve seen, the amount of representation?
“Oh absolutely. When I was working making 50c to the dollar, there were no protections for harassment. Harassment was just part of the job, and it was rampant. And we didn’t have the great protections that we have now and Title 7, the equality of employment, and Title 9, the equality of being treated in sports. So, a lot of changes have come that are monumental.”
Since 2016, do you think it has become harder to gain bipartisan support with respect to the House Caucus on Women’s Issues due to widespread divisions in our nation? Can you talk more about this with respect to when you drafted a bill to create a women’s museum on the Mall?
“One of my bills is to pass equal rights. So I was walking around the whole Mall, you know, where all those monuments are, for all the Presidents. And I just started thinking, where are the women? There were no women on the Mall. So, I put in a bill to create a women’s museum on the Mall, thinking it would be easy to pass, but it took me about 15 years to pass it. It was a lot of hard work, but I finally got it done. I think it’s always been hard [to gain bipartisan support]. If anything, it’s gotten easier over time.”
Given how the landscape has changed, do you have any predictions or insights as to what the future holds for women in politics and elected office?
“Well I think that our numbers have been climbing. When I came to Congress there were very few women, now we’re over 100. It’s made a difference. We have the votes to stand up for choice, stand up for women’s health, stand up for equality. With numbers come power. So, it’s been a great event for us to be out there and gaining recognition and power. Bright, bright future ahead of us. Very bright.”
CEO Jacquette Timmons
At the start of this conversation, I wanted to talk about financial literacy, and that opened a door because Jacquette Timmons has a very different viewpoint of it.
Why don’t you like the term financial literacy?
“A couple of reasons. Number one: if we think about the origins, it served as a requirement for banks that are going into underserved neighborhoods and opening branches. Then, what they needed to do is offer services to the communities in which they were opening these branches. So, they started offering these “financial literacy classes” which were really focused on opening a bank account, opening a savings account. A part of the initiative, I guess was around [the idea], let’s make sure those people who are unbanked, are banked. However, the limitation from my perspective is that it’s only focused on the numbers when success with money is about so much more than that. Number two: it makes it seem as though people that perhaps work at low-wage earning positions, that might be poor, that they don’t know how to manage their money. I would argue they might be a little bit better at managing their money because if they get five dollars removed from their budget, they feel it versus someone who is at the complete opposite end of the income or wealth spectrum. So, I just felt like a lot of it was around a ‘lack of knowledge and a lack of skill’ and there’s nothing wrong if someone doesn’t know something or doesn't know how to do something, and you want to provide a pathway for them to learn. But, there is an issue from my perspective when you act as if there’s something wrong with the person. And so you say you don’t know how to do this because you are this. So that falls into the whole idea, deficit thinking, and I just wholeheartedly reject that.”
Can you give a brief summary of your work as a financial behaviorist and the theory behind it? What made you react differently to the 1987 stock market crash? Are you just a very observant person and this is why you developed your philosophy?
“I am a very observant person. I also am someone who connects the dots that might not be so obvious to others. So, at the end of the day, when I think about…what are the key takeaways from 87? It really kind of highlighted people’s relationship with money, their choices because probably the people that were freaking out the most were the ones that took on more risk than they probably should have. So, it’s a matter of being observant, it’s a matter of connecting the dots, and I think in that regard the dots that are not so obvious. The other thing from both the crash and just from working in the private bank is really coming to recognize that just because someone has more, doesn’t mean they are equipped to do something better with that more. That more doesn't automatically make you better at managing money.”
Would you say you’re trying to manage your emotions or separate your emotions from financial decisions?
“Manage your emotions. I don’t think you could ever separate your emotions. Your making that differentiation is I think part of the issue because people will often try to say, you know, don't be emotional when it comes to money, and I just think that’s ridiculous. We are human beings. We are emotional entities. And so, you can’t separate your emotions when it comes to money. But what you can do is be aware of why do you do the things you do, so if you’re doing something that’s not healthy for you or that’s not going to help you move forward, you can put into [place] habits, or a system, or a framework that don’t put you in a position where you’re sabotaging your financial health. So, I don’t think you can separate your emotions. I don’t think you benefit from repressing them. I think you benefit more from knowing what they are, knowing what the triggers are and then managing that.”
Is there a way that we can use our emotions to appeal to positive attributes like drive and determination to benefit financial decisions?
“The key is to pay attention. Pay attention to what your reaction is and why react the way you do, like what’s the trigger for that reaction. And when you do that and you do that over time, you are then able to connect the dots yourself in terms of what are the patterns that you are noticing as a result of tracking how you are responding to certain things, what emotions are getting triggered, what’s the trigger for that. And so, I don’t know if it’s about managing your emotions so that you can work harder because maybe you don’t need to work harder. Maybe you need to work differently. It comes down to paying attention to your emotions and also not judging. If you're feeling guilt and shame, acknowledge it and try to understand why. If you’re feeling really proud and satisfied, acknowledge that too, and understand that as well. This is what I’m also trying to say: Don’t make one emotion simply because it has guilt or shame attached to it, don’t make that emotion bad, and then make the emotion of feeling happy and grateful, don’t make that good. We feel a whole spectrum for any given reason.”
What is scenario planning?
“You don't have to be doing it to preempt the worst possible case. It is really getting people to understand that you can have a plan, and it’s great to have a plan. But let’s just say a variable in that plan changes, then what’s your response going to be? That’s becoming your new scenario. I rather phrase it as you can create your best plan. All plans get interrupted as soon as that plan gets off the paper and the reality of day, the light of day, some variable unaccounted for -- something shifts. Look at it more from the lens of which variable is likely to change and how do you respond to that?”
Would you say that we’re trying to make a lot of money or establish security?
“I think each person gets to decide what is enough for themselves. I would never aim to define that for someone else because there is so much that you do know. For example, someone might want to say $1000 is enough…well maybe if that person is single, and they don’t have any dependents, and they don’t have any family members that might need their financial assistance, maybe yeah. Well what about that person who has a family, or who has an elderly parent, or a sick parent that they are financially subsidizing? So, who am I to say? It’s not a particular number. I don’t engage in defining for other people what enough is. I think that’s a self-exploration that people have to come to on their own.”
How would one decide to set and personalize their financial goals? Do you have any advice on how to recognize the best goal for ourselves to be successful?
“I think it always starts with just doing a brain dump. You know just carving out some time to just be in a relationship, if you will, with yourself. And just be like what do I want? And don’t filter anything. Like what do you want? Put it all out there on paper, and then that begins your planning process because whatever it is that you want, if it’s more than one thing, more than likely you’re going to have to make choices and tradeoffs around what you can focus on right now because any goal that you have is going to require effort, it’s going to require energy, and it’s going to require money. And the effort, energy, and money that that goal requires comes from what you have right now, which means sometimes, and often all the time, especially if there's more than one goal, that you can’t give your attention, you can give your energy and effort, you can’t give your money to everything at the same time, so how do you prioritize?"
Is there any advice you would give to women specifically surrounding finances?
“No matter who you are and how you identify, it is your responsibility to be engaged. You can outsource. You can hire someone to manage your money, you can hire someone to do your taxes, you can hire someone to do a whole bunch of things for you that are money-related. But at the end of the day, it is your money, and so you cannot abdicate the responsibility of that. And the only way you can ensure that you’re not doing that is if you are engaged. And if you don’t let the fact that “I” have a really busy schedule, or you might have a lot of responsibilities. If you don’t let those things overshadow the fact that you should look at your statements. I think regardless of how someone identifies, one of your key responsibilities is to be engaged with your money and stay engaged.
This is also an opportunity to chip away at this narrative that women are not good with money. I think that’s [terrible]. I really just dislike that stereotype. Having said that though, there is research that proves that women are better investors. And a part of that is because we tend to take a more patient approach to investing.”
What advice would you give to aspiring female CEOs and young girls?
“Track your money. That suggestion, though, is not for the purposes of creating a budget. It is because if you don’t track your money, you’re not putting yourself in a position to collect data, and when you collect data, and then you back and review that data, you have an objective way of identifying your pattern of behavior when it comes to money. And that tracking will serve you immensely. So if you did nothing else, track your money. If I would add one other thing to that, it would also be that when it comes to your money to lead with your goals and make sure you are utilizing your money in a way that is going to help you achieve your goals and then also help you plan for your goals. Because one of the things that I think [about] people, they are often very vague when it comes to what it is that they want money to do for them. Knowing the financial component of their goal is a way of helping to counter that. But here’s the other thing that it does: it helps you to figure out how to manage your tax flow, the money that you have right now, and the money you’re spending aside from that goal. Where do you keep it? Do you keep it liquid, do you keep it in a savings account, or do you invest it? And your goals will help you to determine what you will do with it. So if you only did two things, track your money and make sure you always lead with what’s my goal and what are the financial considerations that I need to keep in mind that could pertain to the goal. If you only did those two things you would have more days, weeks, months, and years where you made wiser decisions with your money than not.”
Do you think financial management courses should be required in high schools?
“It’s really tough because a part of me says yes. I am of the age where when I was in high school, we had home economics. I don’t remember a darn thing but we still had it. So, a part of me feels like yes, and then it’s up to the person whether or not they remember it and apply it. So, yes is the short answer to the question. But I think the reality in terms of the litmus test is that more than likely you’re not going to pay attention; you’re not going to apply it until later on. But, if the seed has been planted, that at least is beneficial.”
Are there any strategies that you would recommend trying to manage your emotions, like mindfulness?
“Journaling. Get curious about, you know, what you’re feeling and why you’re feeling it. I meditate as well and recommend it. Meditate and journal.”
Is there anything else you think is really important for girls to know?
“I think to keep in mind that everything ebbs and flows. The stock market ebbs and flows. It goes up, it comes down. You might have seasons in your professional career where you’re making a lot of money and times where you’re not making a lot of money. You might have seasons where you are flushed with cash versus not being flushed with cash. I think the folks that have the hardest time with those ebbs are those that don’t use those flow moments to prepare for the ebbs. I think the other challenge is people who expect that it’s always just going to go up and never ever ever come down. So if you also remember that there's a flow to everything, including money, I think that will also serve you well.”
Why don’t you like the term financial literacy?
“A couple of reasons. Number one: if we think about the origins, it served as a requirement for banks that are going into underserved neighborhoods and opening branches. Then, what they needed to do is offer services to the communities in which they were opening these branches. So, they started offering these “financial literacy classes” which were really focused on opening a bank account, opening a savings account. A part of the initiative, I guess was around [the idea], let’s make sure those people who are unbanked, are banked. However, the limitation from my perspective is that it’s only focused on the numbers when success with money is about so much more than that. Number two: it makes it seem as though people that perhaps work at low-wage earning positions, that might be poor, that they don’t know how to manage their money. I would argue they might be a little bit better at managing their money because if they get five dollars removed from their budget, they feel it versus someone who is at the complete opposite end of the income or wealth spectrum. So, I just felt like a lot of it was around a ‘lack of knowledge and a lack of skill’ and there’s nothing wrong if someone doesn’t know something or doesn't know how to do something, and you want to provide a pathway for them to learn. But, there is an issue from my perspective when you act as if there’s something wrong with the person. And so you say you don’t know how to do this because you are this. So that falls into the whole idea, deficit thinking, and I just wholeheartedly reject that.”
Can you give a brief summary of your work as a financial behaviorist and the theory behind it? What made you react differently to the 1987 stock market crash? Are you just a very observant person and this is why you developed your philosophy?
“I am a very observant person. I also am someone who connects the dots that might not be so obvious to others. So, at the end of the day, when I think about…what are the key takeaways from 87? It really kind of highlighted people’s relationship with money, their choices because probably the people that were freaking out the most were the ones that took on more risk than they probably should have. So, it’s a matter of being observant, it’s a matter of connecting the dots, and I think in that regard the dots that are not so obvious. The other thing from both the crash and just from working in the private bank is really coming to recognize that just because someone has more, doesn’t mean they are equipped to do something better with that more. That more doesn't automatically make you better at managing money.”
Would you say you’re trying to manage your emotions or separate your emotions from financial decisions?
“Manage your emotions. I don’t think you could ever separate your emotions. Your making that differentiation is I think part of the issue because people will often try to say, you know, don't be emotional when it comes to money, and I just think that’s ridiculous. We are human beings. We are emotional entities. And so, you can’t separate your emotions when it comes to money. But what you can do is be aware of why do you do the things you do, so if you’re doing something that’s not healthy for you or that’s not going to help you move forward, you can put into [place] habits, or a system, or a framework that don’t put you in a position where you’re sabotaging your financial health. So, I don’t think you can separate your emotions. I don’t think you benefit from repressing them. I think you benefit more from knowing what they are, knowing what the triggers are and then managing that.”
Is there a way that we can use our emotions to appeal to positive attributes like drive and determination to benefit financial decisions?
“The key is to pay attention. Pay attention to what your reaction is and why react the way you do, like what’s the trigger for that reaction. And when you do that and you do that over time, you are then able to connect the dots yourself in terms of what are the patterns that you are noticing as a result of tracking how you are responding to certain things, what emotions are getting triggered, what’s the trigger for that. And so, I don’t know if it’s about managing your emotions so that you can work harder because maybe you don’t need to work harder. Maybe you need to work differently. It comes down to paying attention to your emotions and also not judging. If you're feeling guilt and shame, acknowledge it and try to understand why. If you’re feeling really proud and satisfied, acknowledge that too, and understand that as well. This is what I’m also trying to say: Don’t make one emotion simply because it has guilt or shame attached to it, don’t make that emotion bad, and then make the emotion of feeling happy and grateful, don’t make that good. We feel a whole spectrum for any given reason.”
What is scenario planning?
“You don't have to be doing it to preempt the worst possible case. It is really getting people to understand that you can have a plan, and it’s great to have a plan. But let’s just say a variable in that plan changes, then what’s your response going to be? That’s becoming your new scenario. I rather phrase it as you can create your best plan. All plans get interrupted as soon as that plan gets off the paper and the reality of day, the light of day, some variable unaccounted for -- something shifts. Look at it more from the lens of which variable is likely to change and how do you respond to that?”
Would you say that we’re trying to make a lot of money or establish security?
“I think each person gets to decide what is enough for themselves. I would never aim to define that for someone else because there is so much that you do know. For example, someone might want to say $1000 is enough…well maybe if that person is single, and they don’t have any dependents, and they don’t have any family members that might need their financial assistance, maybe yeah. Well what about that person who has a family, or who has an elderly parent, or a sick parent that they are financially subsidizing? So, who am I to say? It’s not a particular number. I don’t engage in defining for other people what enough is. I think that’s a self-exploration that people have to come to on their own.”
How would one decide to set and personalize their financial goals? Do you have any advice on how to recognize the best goal for ourselves to be successful?
“I think it always starts with just doing a brain dump. You know just carving out some time to just be in a relationship, if you will, with yourself. And just be like what do I want? And don’t filter anything. Like what do you want? Put it all out there on paper, and then that begins your planning process because whatever it is that you want, if it’s more than one thing, more than likely you’re going to have to make choices and tradeoffs around what you can focus on right now because any goal that you have is going to require effort, it’s going to require energy, and it’s going to require money. And the effort, energy, and money that that goal requires comes from what you have right now, which means sometimes, and often all the time, especially if there's more than one goal, that you can’t give your attention, you can give your energy and effort, you can’t give your money to everything at the same time, so how do you prioritize?"
Is there any advice you would give to women specifically surrounding finances?
“No matter who you are and how you identify, it is your responsibility to be engaged. You can outsource. You can hire someone to manage your money, you can hire someone to do your taxes, you can hire someone to do a whole bunch of things for you that are money-related. But at the end of the day, it is your money, and so you cannot abdicate the responsibility of that. And the only way you can ensure that you’re not doing that is if you are engaged. And if you don’t let the fact that “I” have a really busy schedule, or you might have a lot of responsibilities. If you don’t let those things overshadow the fact that you should look at your statements. I think regardless of how someone identifies, one of your key responsibilities is to be engaged with your money and stay engaged.
This is also an opportunity to chip away at this narrative that women are not good with money. I think that’s [terrible]. I really just dislike that stereotype. Having said that though, there is research that proves that women are better investors. And a part of that is because we tend to take a more patient approach to investing.”
What advice would you give to aspiring female CEOs and young girls?
“Track your money. That suggestion, though, is not for the purposes of creating a budget. It is because if you don’t track your money, you’re not putting yourself in a position to collect data, and when you collect data, and then you back and review that data, you have an objective way of identifying your pattern of behavior when it comes to money. And that tracking will serve you immensely. So if you did nothing else, track your money. If I would add one other thing to that, it would also be that when it comes to your money to lead with your goals and make sure you are utilizing your money in a way that is going to help you achieve your goals and then also help you plan for your goals. Because one of the things that I think [about] people, they are often very vague when it comes to what it is that they want money to do for them. Knowing the financial component of their goal is a way of helping to counter that. But here’s the other thing that it does: it helps you to figure out how to manage your tax flow, the money that you have right now, and the money you’re spending aside from that goal. Where do you keep it? Do you keep it liquid, do you keep it in a savings account, or do you invest it? And your goals will help you to determine what you will do with it. So if you only did two things, track your money and make sure you always lead with what’s my goal and what are the financial considerations that I need to keep in mind that could pertain to the goal. If you only did those two things you would have more days, weeks, months, and years where you made wiser decisions with your money than not.”
Do you think financial management courses should be required in high schools?
“It’s really tough because a part of me says yes. I am of the age where when I was in high school, we had home economics. I don’t remember a darn thing but we still had it. So, a part of me feels like yes, and then it’s up to the person whether or not they remember it and apply it. So, yes is the short answer to the question. But I think the reality in terms of the litmus test is that more than likely you’re not going to pay attention; you’re not going to apply it until later on. But, if the seed has been planted, that at least is beneficial.”
Are there any strategies that you would recommend trying to manage your emotions, like mindfulness?
“Journaling. Get curious about, you know, what you’re feeling and why you’re feeling it. I meditate as well and recommend it. Meditate and journal.”
Is there anything else you think is really important for girls to know?
“I think to keep in mind that everything ebbs and flows. The stock market ebbs and flows. It goes up, it comes down. You might have seasons in your professional career where you’re making a lot of money and times where you’re not making a lot of money. You might have seasons where you are flushed with cash versus not being flushed with cash. I think the folks that have the hardest time with those ebbs are those that don’t use those flow moments to prepare for the ebbs. I think the other challenge is people who expect that it’s always just going to go up and never ever ever come down. So if you also remember that there's a flow to everything, including money, I think that will also serve you well.”
Judge Ellen Spodek
New York State Supreme Court Judge Ellen Spodek
What did you do before becoming a judge?
“I was a lawyer in my own practice.”
What made you want to become a judge?
“I think partly my father was a Judge. He really loved his job. I didn’t go right to law school. It took some time, but then when I finally went, I really liked it. I loved being in the courtroom, and I just thought it was the next natural progression.”
What was your father’s name?
“Jules Spodek.”
What is your favorite part of what you do? Why?
“Dealing and interacting with the lawyers. It’s interesting, especially to hear different points of views. I feel like it helps me foster settlement on cases.”
I understand that recently you became in charge of most of the malpractice cases in Brooklyn, what’s that like?
“It’s frustrating at times, but it’s interesting. I feel like I have an influence. I am doing the best I can to keep cases moving. You get to know carriers (the various hospitals, the plaintiffs), and which ones will take a little less to try to settle a case versus which ones you have to have a trial.”
My father’s a lawyer, and he describes the business as an adversarial process. The judge is in the middle or neutral. Are there times when you are able to bring the sides together? How do you do it and do you find it rewarding?
“I do this by settlements, and by arguing motions, trying to get the motion to lead to a settlement. I find it rewarding.”
Do you feel that women judges are treated equally to male judges with respect to opportunities for advancement?
“Yes, I do.”
Do you feel that women judges are treated equally to male judges by the lawyers that come before them?
"They’re not treated equally by lawyers. It depends on who comes before them, but a lot of times, no. For example, I said something to a lawyer, and he was being condescending. I said something to him. He responded, how can you say that to me; I have a wife and three daughters? I said well I’m not your wife and I’m not your daughters. I’m the judge. I think one of the lawyer’s summing up said something to the jury along the lines of ‘We may not have been as respectful as we should have been to the court.’ So, the lawyers are aware of it as well.”
How about when you started as a female attorney?
“Well, I worked for the city. So, I think everyone then started with the same salary. But, I think some of the advancements that I was told once that I didn’t get the same raise because the only person is married and has children, he has a wife and children, and to me that shouldn’t matter in the scheme of things.”
What advice would you give to young women looking to enter this field?
“So, I love it. I think you need to find something that you’re passionate about and there’s a million different things in the law that you can do. I love being in the courtroom, so I gravitated towards trial work. If you want to be in the courtroom, there’s really only a couple of areas you can go in. But, having a law degree gives you a lot of opportunities, and I think one of things law school teaches you is how to think like a lawyer, and that kind of thinking can be a basis for a lot of different kinds of jobs, not just for a trial lawyer.”